Comments on The Last Debate: A New Thing?

God doesn't, to my understanding, "do new things" ...

2007-07-04T13:23:00.000-04:00

God doesn't, to my understanding, "do new things" per se. Not sure how to read what's going on, but yours is a reasonable reading of course.

(I started to write more, but I cut it, because it was very initial thinking on the concepts of change and evolution--would have been babbly and not too pointful. I need to take it away and think on it. I'm sure pieces will show up in future comments.)

Ummm...while conceding that there are some Christi...

2007-06-29T20:32:00.000-04:00

Ummm...while conceding that there are some Christians who argue that homosexuality is, as you say, entirely an issue of "behavior," I would have to disagree and say, no, that is not an accurate characterization. There is a wide, wide range of viewpoints on the issue of human sexuality in Christianity.

Don't Christians have a different definition of ga...

2007-06-29T20:26:00.000-04:00

Don't Christians have a different definition of gay anyway? As long as you don't act upon your "feelings", you're not gay, according to them.

The apology by former ex-gay leaders was done in s...

2007-06-29T14:17:00.000-04:00

The apology by former ex-gay leaders was done in support of a larger project which didn't get covered in the media pieces about the apology.

Check it out: BeyondExGay.com.

It seeks to be a new thing -- a community formed by and for former ex-gay people, their family, friends, and supporters. The work begins with healing, understanding the nominal good and greater harm experienced at the hands of ex-gay. For many it also involves unpacking much of what faith has meant, the messages that religion and non-straight orientation could not coexist, and seeking out what is next. It's not unusual that folks are also building new families of choice and social networks because coming out as openly gay instead of ex-gay has fractured other relationships.

In the long term, though, it is expected that vibrant healing and learning to tell the stories of ex-gay experiences effectively will also help trigger shifts in public perception of what it means to be gay or ex-gay.

Full disclosure -- I'm no neutral bystander on this project. While not a former ex-gay myself, I am the web developer for the project.

Take care...

Thought-provoking post, as always, Andy.I think ma...

2007-06-29T02:45:00.000-04:00

Thought-provoking post, as always, Andy.

I think maybe it might center around what we mean by "new"? I think it's clear that we humans are constantly struggling and evolving and growing and learning more about God and his will. So obviously we're going to make "new" discoveries.

But that's more an individual thing. As you note, there seems to be a broader, more social level. What does it mean when you have a spiritual awakening of sorts in the general populace? Does that mean something "new" is happening? Have humans fundamentally changed? Has GOD changed? Is evolution contagious once it reaches a certain critical mass?

I definitely think this is worth asking... what does it mean when we all start to embrace Christianity in a way (most) Christians previously thought impossible? What does this say about our faith?

Kind of cool, along these lines: my priest said something the other day that really resonated with me. He said that faith is all about asking questions, and all about doubt. The opposite of faith isn't doubt; it's certainty. I totally agree with this. I remember being in evangelical churches and always being made to feel guilty if I didn't KNOW I was going to heaven... yet my philosophical side (I was way too smart for a teenager) INSISTED there was no way I could really KNOW. So I sat there in youth group feeling like a failure as a Christian, and convinced I would go to hell for not having enough faith.

It seems to me that the church could undergo an evolution much like an individual, just on a broad scale. Maybe we're seeing a major step in that -- we've done enough questioning as a body that we're learning something new. And finally understanding that this has been a Christian Truth all along.

Yoiy... sorry for making this comment so long and rambly. You always make me think, damn you ;)

nope.not with a ten foot pole.

2007-06-28T21:44:00.000-04:00

nope.
not with a ten foot pole.