Wednesday, July 09, 2008

Poor Hillary

The New York Times reports today on the, shall we say, tepid response from Democrats to Barack Obama's gallant request for donations to help Senator Clinton retire her $23 million campaign debt.


I think it was a nice gesture on Obama's part -- he even personally contributed the legal maximum of $2,300 -- to acknowledge Senator Clinton's historic accomplishment.

But I am confused about this notion that there should be any obligation on the part of Democrats -- especially Obama supporters -- to provide financial aid to one of the world's richest, most powerful couples.

Gas prices are soaring, the US is hemorrhaging jobs, people are rioting around the world protesting the skyrocketing costs of basic food staples (16,000 children will die today from hunger-related causes) and we're supposed to dig deep into our pockets and pass a buck to a Senator and her ex-President husband who are collectively worth $109 million?

Senator Clinton was not some political neophyte. She knew well what she was doing when she spent $11 million of her own fortune -- check it, folks, eleven million dollars of her own money she spent, and she wants help!?!?!?!?!? -- on her presidential campaign. That was a gamble, not an investment. Even if she'd won the nomination, there's no guarantee she'd recoup that loss from donations.

It was many weeks from the time that her path to the nomination became mathematically improbable until the day she surrendered -- pointedly, not on the day Obama clinched the nomination; no, on that evening, she delivered a bizarrely Bushian alternate-reality speech in which she announced she would ponder her options -- and during this time her campaign wildly spent beyond its means.

It is particularly ironic that she wants help from Obama supporters, after she spent months (and millions of dollars) trying to damage his reputation with cheap guilt-by-association smears and misrepresentations.

I think we can breathe a sigh of collective relief that she will not be put in charge of fixing our economy. No wonder conservatives deride welfare and entitlement programs, when you have millionaire liberals telling the Times that they are "bitter" that no one is rushing to help them recover from their financial folly. Imagine if the Clintons had to pay for their own debts! Why, by my calculations, that would leave them with only around $80 million. Poor dears. How would they get by?

I don't know what she's going to do. Maybe she'll have to write another book?


Gino said...

andy, welcome to our common ground.

well said.

Anonymous said...

The list of issues on which Barack Obama has flipped now that the primaries are over is long and growing rapidly.

• He says he believes in a Second Amendment right to bear arms.
• He now opposes late-term abortion.
• He suddenly is a devotee of using faith-based institutions to deliver public services.
• He now says that he won't raise Social Security taxes on anyone making less than $250,000 a year. In the primary, he said he'd eliminate the threshold entirely, including on people making as little as $100,000.
• He recently opposed the Fairness Doctrine for talk radio.
• Now he says he's going to consult with the military before pulling out of Iraq.

But so extensive a list of flip-flops, all in the past few weeks, begs the basic question: Was he lying before when he was a liberal, or is he prevaricating now?

Andy said...

I try to restrain myself from personal attacks, but you are a moron. None of these are flip-flops, you silly twit. Pay some fricking attention to what's going on, or go hang out at your favorite circle jerk blogs. I don't have time for your bullshit.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

Andy said...

You really truly are a spectacularly gullible fool. The goal of the surge was to increase security so that the new government in Iraq could begin to make political progress; violence has decreased, but that was only Step 1 of "the surge." The actual goal -- facilitating political reconciliation in Iraq -- hasn't begun to materialize. And Obama has ALWAYS said that the conditions on the ground would dictate the pace of our withdrawal, that he would adjust as necessary. Ummm, that's not flip-flopping, that's just basic sanity. You are trying to hold him to a George Bush type standard of issuing a proclamation and then sticking with it come hell or high water. Barack is saying, "Here's what I want to do," and adapting accordingly as history unfolds. THIS IS THE PRESIDENT I WANT.

Seriously, I'm giving you one more chance, you anonymous coward, to put something here of substance. One more bullshit link and I'm going to permanently disable anonymous comments. I don't even know why I bother responding to you except I feel punchy at the moment and you're providing some entertainment. You are astonishingly, unspeakably ill-informed about Barack Obama. Please, please, go back to "No Quarter" or whichever alternate universe you came from.

Anonymous said...

"16 months at the most", get a grip.

You can't handle the truth. Fine cut me off--the last debate.

N. English said...

Referring to the original topic...

"Almost came in first" still equals lost.

Why should I give money to HRC when I can give money to BHO and have something useful come out of it.

JHC! $11 mil is the Montana add buy!

Good post, Andy!

Andy said...

You can't handle the truth.

You wouldn't know the truth if it came up and kicked you in the balls. I am happy to debate you on matters of opinion but you're living in la-la-land.

Gino said...

first off, this posting was not about obama, or his fitness or whatever...

it was about hilary wanting somebody else to pay for her foolishness.

anonymous just looks the fool trying to tear this thread into another direction, and continues with comment/youtube spam.

he's also a sissy and a jerk. real men dont hide behind the 'anonymous' label.

DJRainDog said...

Wow...Andy develops a temper. I've been waiting for this for a LONG time! It would've served you well when you lived here... ;-)

Kevin said...

Andy, why do you care so much about Hillary? Let it go. No one should care anymore. But since you wrote something, I have two comments.

I would think that Barack probably would have been quite embarrassed losing 9 of last 14 primaries had she not been actively campaigning. I think she actually did him a favor by staying into the bitter end.

Also, my understanding is the she is not looking to get her own money back, but rather paying off debts she owes to others. So your quote of $23 million, which includes the $11 million, overstates her request.

Rather than talking more about Hilary, write a post about why we should still vote for Barack even though he caved in to the Bush administration and voted for Telecom Immunity.

Anonymous said...

Since Andy is incapable of listening to anything negative about Obama, I would like to discuss what other more sane people have said on this forum (which I may soon be cut off from by the Wizzard of OR).

First, n.english you say "Why should I give money to HRC when I can give money to BHO and have something useful come out of it." Well Obama wants former Hillary supporters to give him $ and vote for him in Nov. In return he wants his supporters to retire some of Hillary's debt. If you think he can win without support from Hillary supporters, then OK you are right.

Gino said almost the same thing concerning the $ thing. OK.

Kevin, had many good points including this one "Rather than talking more about Hilary, write a post about why we should still vote for Barack even though he caved in to the Bush administration and voted for Telecom Immunity."

Andy said...

For the record, I disagree with his FISA position. You all seem to think I'm some starry-eyed naif who was taken in by the myth of Obama. I never thought Obama was the left-wing, quasi-socialist messiah of my dreams. If you think Obama is substantially tacking rightward now that the primaries are over, you are the naive ones who didn't pay close enough attention to what he has said and written over the years. Again, I disagree with the FISA vote, but if I'm supposed to hold out for a presidential candidate I can support 100% of the time I might as well not bother registering. (I also disagree on a personal level with his recent statements about gun control, but I am not certain that constitutionally he speaking he is not correct, I just don't like guns; and while in theory I like the faith-based charity concept, I am not entirely comfortable with it, either.) I am not surprised by any of the decisions recently bizarrely called "flip-flops." They seem entirely in keeping with the decisions I expected from the candidate I have been following for the last couple of years. He isn't perfect. He didn't even "flip flop" on campaign financing. He had always said he would take public financing if the Republican nominee would agree to similar terms; McCain will not agree to Obama's position on the use of 527s in the campaign. Plus, I don't have the sense that Obama is in the pocket of Big Business and elite donors. So, screw it. I want the Democrats to WIN. Let's spend McCain into the ground. Let Obama fix campaign financing when he's in the White House (and we can fix FISA then, too).

McCain is incompetent and I've lost all respect for Hillary Clinton. I can disagree with a candidate and still vote for them if I think they are honest. (Witness my reluctant, bewildering affection for Mike Huckabee.) But Hillary...her willingness to use Karl Rove style smears, her appalling lies about her "foreign policy experience," her childish mischaracterizations of Obama's policy proposals (especially with regard to healthcare) and, oh, let us not forget her campaign's constant claims that the votes of the people who supported Obama didn't really count (black people, caucus states, eggheads, hippies, rich liberals, red-state voters) and that people who voted for her in the primary wouldn't turn out for Obama in the general. Well, Anonymous, if you go over to RealClearPolitics (a site you like), you'll see that presently in an average of all major polls, Obama is leading McCain by 7.7% in Pennsylvania, the state that was supposedly his blue-collar Waterloo. He leades by 5.5% nationally. It was all hooey. Plus, Hillary Clinton voted for the Iraq war. That, in my book, is absolutely unforgivable.

Anonymous, you have never once made a cogent argument on this blog. You certainly haven't made any kind of substantial apology (in the classical sense) for a Clinton candidacy. Maybe my support for Obama has a great deal to do with my legitimate distaste for Hillary Clinton, for which I have provided ample basis? What's wrong with that? Maybe I picked Obama by process of elimination: he's the only one who doesn't make me want to hurl.

Anonymous said...

"He had always said he would take public financing if the Republican nominee would agree to similar terms" LINK PLEASE!

"McCain will not agree to Obama's position on the use of 527s in the campaign." There is nothing to agree on, these are independently funded groups not controlled by candidates. You can start your own trash Hillary 527 independent of Obama if you like.

" certainly haven't made any kind of substantial apology (in the classical sense) for a Clinton candidacy." WHAT? WAS SHE NOT ALLOWED TO RUN? How about an apology for this:

or this:

Kevin wanted you to give us reasons to vote for Obama. Instead you us give the same leftover Hillary bashing with some additional McCain bashing & Obama is ahead in some polls in July. Polls, that is how the DNC took away delegates from Hillary in MI. Selected, not elected.

I know a lot of rich white people (older voters) are afraid of reparations if Obama is elected. That has been driven home by his religious leaders & the congregation on their feet cheering. You want to address that? I guess blacks, the young (poor) & Hispanics have no problem siezing 401K accounts from old rich white people--Atlas Shrugged. We do not know Obama--he is a mystery--you do not know what he will do.

Sorry, I don't think you gave us a cogent argument to vote FOR Obama.

Andy said...

Let me summarize: Hillary Clinton is a sufficient reason to vote for Barack Obama.

Anonymous said...

I think you hate women. I'll be back in a few weeks to see if you have grown up. You will like the first half of this video:

Andy said...

Re campaign finance: ""If I am the Democratic nominee, I will aggressively pursue an agreement with the Republican nominee to preserve a publicly financed general election." No candidate uses this kind of careful construction if he is trying to take a pledge, and Obama can therefore hardly be accused of having broken one."

from The Huffington Post

And about the 527s, that was exactly Obama's point. McCain was going to take public financing but allow 527s to basically run his dirty campaign for him. Nearly a year ago when he was still just a shot-in-the-dark, he was openly condemning 527s that were on his side.

I'm sorry pal, but with each comment you leave, you continue to reveal that you just haven't been paying attention. If Obama were the candidate you think he is, I wouldn't vote for him either.

Andy said...

I think you hate women.

ROTFLMAO. Wow, buddy. I think you're down to your last card now. How do I respond to that? If any of my women readers who know me happen to bother to read this far down in the muck, I'll happily accept their open and honest appraisal.

Andy said...

How about an apology for this

As I suspected, you are a cretin. You don't even know what I'm asking for. An "apology" in the classical sense is not a "mea culpa," dimwit. Look it up.

I guess blacks, the young (poor) & Hispanics have no problem siezing 401K accounts from old rich white people--Atlas Shrugged.

O.M.G. Paranoid, much? I'm the one who lacks objectivity, vis a vis my alleged misogyny? You, chap, are insane. Entertaining, in a low brow way, perhaps, but nuts.

Anonymous said...

Kevin says "Rather than talking more about Hilary, write a post about why we should still vote for Barack"

Andy responds with no reason to vote for O, but more Hil hate. He says he did not like O voting for FISA. Hil voted against it & you still hate her, so you are not being rational. You should hate O & love Hil. You also wanted an apology for her running " certainly haven't made any kind of substantial apology (in the classical sense) for a Clinton candidacy." Can't women run for prez? I guess not in Andy's world.

401 reference:

I'm am taking a summer vacation from Andy's Obama is always right weirdness.

Andy said...

I don't hate Hillary; I don't respect her. The FISA vote was bad; but not as bad as Hillary's Iraq vote.

Dude, I am not asking you to "apologize" for Hillary Clinton. When I say "in the classical sense," I mean, make a case for. When Plato wrote his "Apology," it wasn't him saying, "I'm so, so, so sorry." Jiminy Christmas, you are an ignoramus. You seriously thought I was demanding an "I'm sorry" because Hillary ran? Because she's a woman? Get a grip. You are a complete TOOL, do you know that?

I have given many reasons to vote for Obama, principally his candor and integrity, two qualities which in my opinion Senator Clinton lacks, or has set aside in favor of ambition. His consistent opposition to the war in Iraq -- oh, please, please let me know when Senator Clinton apologizes for her Iraq vote and uses this phrase: "This was a war that should never have been authorized and should never have been waged" -- is his biggest selling point. On the gravest decision of her political career, Senator Clinton made the wrong choice. Our next President needs to be, at a minimum, smart enough to have known that invading Iraq was a distraction, an all-around terrible idea, and a flat-out crime. Hillary could not see that. In your case, you have attempted to link Obama to Libya and Hamas, and you expressed your concern that blacks and hispanics are after your 401(k). You didn't have any credibility to start with, but with that last point you proved you are a paranoid, racist, grossly misinformed freak. (Who also is prone to typos.)

I'm am taking a summer vacation from Andy's Obama is always right weirdness.

Don't bother. GO THE FRACK AWAY. Go start your own blog, anonymous coward, and let people comment on your baffling, batshit-crazy ideas. Seriously, I'm implore you. Find someone else to bother, you crackpot.